Alexis York Lumbard aka Rabiah York Lumbard agreed to Muslim Media Review's request for an interview about her first novel, No True Believers. You can see all of her works and contact her through her website.The Young Adult (YA) Genre
Given that most authors who write YA aren’t themselves young adults, what are successful YA authors doing to connect with young readers?
What separates YA novels & short stories from “adult” literature? Is it language level? Is it that the protagonist(s) must be young adults? For example, why isn’t Crime and Punishment a YA novel?
Audience. Though YA novels and short stories are often read by adults, the primary cast of characters has to be teens, and the emotional themes relevant to the teen experience. Teens have intense emotional lives. They feel. Deeply. Stories about them need to reflect that. Otherwise, in terms of craft and craft techniques and topics dealt with the YA category shares universals with any other genre of literature. There might even be a YA adaptation to Crime and Punishment. It would be shorter and contemporary, but the essentials would still be there. Or maybe not. There are no rules in good literature. Some of the best authors out there break rules all the time.
Who are the gatekeepers to the YA market? Is it important for YA marketing success for adults or corporations to approve? Do readers decide to read YA books based on adults’ or parents’ recommendations?
It depends on the book. YA is a microcosm of all genres. There are literary masterpieces, rom-coms, thrillers, poetic gems, biographies, the list goes on. The issue of commercial success and marketing is a bit different than gatekeeping. What becomes a commercial success or makes the NY Times bestseller list is often a mystery to me. Sometimes it is political. I've seen books on that list that are crap. Gatekeeping is slightly different and concerns the full spectrum of publishing, from what manuscripts get purchased and why to how they sell. While I am seeing a greater variety of books for and by Muslims, there are still a lot of issues. Gatekeeping by editors is often based on money. Is a certain book universal enough for them to sell to non-Muslims? They have to consider this. At the end of the day the publisher spends a lot on printing books and Muslims are a tiny fraction of the USA readership. They have to ask themselves whether or not a book can appeal to non-Muslims. Can the "appeal" part be ideological and narrow and, therefore, cause erasure by pushing certain tropes? Sure. Sometimes, however, the appeal is simply about "Can xyz book be understood by people that don't know jack about Muslims or Islam?" On this level, it is harmless. Frankly, most of my readers are non-Muslim. I've never written "just for Muslims." I do not divide my world that way.
The kind of gatekeeping which bothers me the most, however, is that which I see Muslims doing. There are Muslim insiders--everything from hijabi librarians to disgruntled and unpublished Muslim writers who moonlight as book reviewers with an ideological axe to grind. They've either racialized/culturalized Islam to an absurd degree or want such and such a book to affirm their limited aqeedah. Having been a part of the Muslim community for twenty years though, I'm not at all surprised. Take for example, that awful Kirkus review of my book. Clearly, this person not only suffered from compound ignorance regarding a simple phrase like Allahu Akbar and its cultural expressions on the Arab Street, but they also suffered from some sort of sentimental orthodoxy. I could tell by their shoddily written review that my book rubbed them wrong. I guarantee you that they loathed Salma and my book because they do not like Muslims like us--those who live in the gray and do not espouse Muslim supremacy or naiviety. As Muslims we joke all the time about evangelicals and their paranoia regarding creeping shariah, but let me tell you, some of us live up to the ideological narrow mindedness they expect us to have. There are Muslim professionals that want to police the children’s book industry as some sort of self-appointed Grand Muftis. To these individuals, I have but one comment, “Stop getting fiqhi with my fiction!” This isn’t the time or place. Go do some dhikr and check your ego. The professional children’s book industry is a place where we separate church from state.
A relative was at first happy that his children read Harry Potter novels, as he thought they were appropriate for their age at the time. Later, he blamed those novels for making “adult” novels seem difficult for his children, who did not move past YA literature. And, in fact, many adults seem to enjoy YA novels. Are YA novels the “fast food” of literature to which people can become accustomed & then lose their taste for “real, adult” literature?
Some are the fast food of "real, adult" literature, but many more are not. To dismiss the thousands of books and writers out there who write for youth like this is awfully condescending. When people say this, it tells me they've only read a few books that hit a bestseller list. They need to read more widely from the YA bookshelf. Or they just haven't found the author who speaks to them. Email me. I'll hit you up with suggestions! Also---people change. Tastes change. Give readers the room to grow. I do know this—belittling teens is not an effective way to encourage them to read “the classics.” (A relative’s assessment no less).
Recently, my county's Board of Education began adding YA literature & other "genre" literature to approved English language course reading lists to stimulate children's interest in reading. As one teacher put it to me, the children weren't fired up about Wuthering Heights. Should I consider this part of the decline of civilization to Idiocracy like Neil Postman or should I take a The Kids Are Alright attitude?
I always hesitate when perceived problems are represented as having an either/or explanation to them, nor do I see civilizations, like our own lives, as having a linear trajectory (be it upwards or downwards). The truth is messier than that. Look, some of the books I see published are rubbish. Many are not. I've seen great depth and substance even in "YA," which both literary snobs and sometimes religious dogmatists will dismiss as fluff or harmful. To whom? The answer to that is situational and subjective. Honestly, to each his own. I mean, look at medieval Arab literature. Many prudists today would drop their jaws if they read the raunchy homoerotic old school Iraqi poet Abu Nuwas of the 8th/9th CE (عاج الشقي و لا تبك ليلى)—who mind you was widely regarded and recited at the Abbasid court. The Abbasid Era is often regarded as a high period for Islamic civilization. So this sort of thinking for me doesn't make sense. Some readers read crap and substance. Some read one or the other. Honestly, the more we read, the better. Tastes develop in their own time. If a young person needs to read fluff, let them. At least they are reading! Let's stop putting so much pressure on our youth—religiously, academically, psychologically. Let them find their way. I trust them. I myself was once a "wayward" person. Islam is better through self-discovery, NOT imposition.
Last thing on the topic of YA. In your book, the protagonist is really into the movie Fight Club, starring Edward Norton and Brad Pitt. Another character likes Bob Marley. Are these today’s youth culture? Or were you sneaking in your own youth culture?
Both! First of all—Bob Marley is timeless. I know teens today that love him. My emphasis on Ed Norton might seem random but if you know his filmography you’ll see that it was intentional. I do a lot of foreshadowing through his movies. Will all readers get that? Enjoy that? No. And that’s ok.
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| Rabiah York Lumbard |
I do want to talk about the book, but I don’t want to reveal spoilers.
That reminds me. Will you post your own review? I’m curious what an 51 year old fart thinks about this teenage thriller. Mind you, my hubby is the same age. And my YA editor too. Deep down, we are all still in touch with our teenage selves.
I liked the calligraphic cover. How did that come about? Are there alternate covers for the (in sha Allah) upcoming mass paperback editions?
The initial sketch for the cover originated internally at Penguin Random House. Ray Shappell’s work. Penguin then hired Dublin based artist Peter Strain to make the final design. The lettering is all hand-drawn. His work is impressive. He's done cover work for every significant newspaper you can think of but has also done a ton of album and movie covers. You can find his work on Etsy, too. A real genius. The amazing thing is that Salma looks like my eldest. It is wild. Personality-wise she's like my daughter too. Intelligent, vulnerable, anti-authoritarian, and feisty. All wonderful traits, I believe. Sorry. The proud momma in me always spills out . . . in unexpected ways.
Salma, the protagonist, has a health issue which, in my mind, amounts to a disability. What was your thinking in making a health issue a prominent feature in the story?
I did this to create an internal commentary on the book. I see invisible disabilities as sharing many traits with those of us who are Muslim but not visible Muslims or performing our Islam. Like someone who has an illness that others do not understand or see, we have to become our own experts and constantly legitimize ourselves. It is exhausting, just like disability is. I also have to admit that it was a strategy plot-wise. I needed Salma to be able to break into the Turner home and squeeze through an impossibly small basement window. Thanks to having EDS, she can stretch and manipulate her body that way. I also wanted to make the point that some hardcore Islamophobes believe that it is not Muslims that are the problem but Islam as such. As Salma says, "—heritage or convert, practicing or not. Hippie or cripple. It didn't matter. If Islam was inherently evil, then all Muslims were potential terrorists." She's also white or white-passing, and I'm basically saying, "yeah, Islamophobia is that bad." On a positive note, her disability becomes her strength. And I think for those of us who have been othered, our othering has become our wisdom. At least for me, it has opened my eyes. Salma lived in a bit of a bubble. I know I did at times, too. As one review said, nailing it on the head, the book is a true bildungsroman and a detective story. Her disability and Muslim identity are key to both.
The protagonist’s family includes members of different ethnic backgrounds and religions. IMO, this accurately reflects Muslim life in the USA, but it doesn’t seem to be acknowledged when official Muslimdom talks about family life or when ‘Murica conceives of its own families. Why does this “mixed” reality rarely appear in corporate portrayals of Muslims?
I really appreciate this question. There are two reasons for that. On the one hand, the corporate versions that push a nasty form of Islam will inherently be flat and simplistic. Because hate is flat and simplistic. On the other hand, there are people who claim to believe in inclusion and diversity but end up making idols of those same beliefs. Part of it, I believe, is a secular bias. In this trope, Muslims might be acceptable, but Islam is still the religion from "over there." This is where converts—both black and white—get annoyed by the single-story narrative of the Muslim American experience. This liberal type of Islamophobia still wants to keep Islam as “other” because it’s like a souvenir they can hang on their wall like a tourist, not something they have to actually intellectually contend with—if, say, they have to confront the fact that someone like me (white) is also Muslim and chose to become Muslim. This is where I think Muslims themselves also make the matter worse. The Muslim community tends to belittle converts. We also tend to not acknowledge our own biases. We desire intellectual freedom and respect from the rest of the world, but rarely impart this same freedom to our own. That complicates the matter. In a way, we've created our own tropes. I've known some that have read my book and immediately assumed that the main character, Salma, questioned her faith just because she "dates" and "curses." I think this is a shallow assessment. We, as a community, often live for ritual and law only. We complain about gatekeeping from the outside but then become our own gatekeepers because we also nitpick and complain about everything it seems.
Bullying at school and on the Internet is a major issue for Salma & her siblings. Given the attention various organizations have given to anti-bullying campaigns, why does it seem like the problem is intensifying?
My stereotype of professional immigrant Muslims is that they want to buy a house in a "good" neighborhood in the burbs & send their children to "good" schools. "Good," in the USA context, means "white flight" neighborhoods. And these people are placing their masajid there as well and then wondering why they have trouble at zoning hearings. Have you had such people read this book and tell you, “You’re exaggerating. Bullying at school, perpetrated and/or tolerated by the administration? White supremacist groups in our cul-de-sac?” These same people don’t seem to have difficulty ascribing professional difficulties to racism & Islamophobia. What would better equip these parents to help their children navigate these obstacles?
Yes, I have had some people tell me I was writing "Islamophobia porn." People don't realize how entrenched Islamophobia is. We find it among hardcore bigots just as much as we find it among self-righteous liberals. It just looks different. In my mind, both stem from a deep historical and civilizational bias against non-Western peoples and religion. Furthermore, many well-meaning Americans have been brainwashed by a rather Eurocentric education.
I think the best way to help our kids navigate the layers of Islamophobia around us is to help them grow and develop confidence and pride in their faith. Not a type of pride that says Islam or Muslims are perfect (because neither is true) but one that is nuanced and compassionate and discerning. Once our kids know the difference between ideals and realities, they can better live their lives. If our kids have a healthy, spiritual relationship with their deen, they can better weather the vagancies of the Dunia—including bigotry. They need coping mechanisms. Religious ones—sure, like prayer and an intellectually based version of their deen (study of Quran…hadith...seerah…etc. in order to know the beauty of your faith), but also general supports like learning how to take care of your self physically and emotionally. I think we need to rely as a community more on the arts, too. Because the realm of the arts is universal. We have to keep waging beauty. Many Islamophobes or Islamo-illiterates will be won over by that.
Look—at the end of the day when I was a non-Muslim and had all sorts of stereotypes about Islam, it wasn't Muslims preaching to me that showed me the truth, but just Muslims being genuine, compassionate people. Does that put the onus on Muslims to "solve" the situation? A bit. Yeah. Is that fair? No. But what choice do we have?
One a final note, while you can't change or win over a hardcore bigot (I learned the hard way with an alt-right cousin of mine who lives in Florida) you can develop friends and allies among many “suburban in-between types” who will become less Islamophobic if they get to know you and you are a sincere human being. We have to allow ourselves to be vulnerable.
In your novel, several non-Muslim characters play important positive & even heroically good roles. Whenever I thought that a Muslim reader might become too depressed about life in the USA while reading this, I countered that thought by thinking the reader might consider what those non-Muslim characters did. Are you pleased that I as a reader was juggling those thoughts?
Yes! Islamophobia is real and painful, but we do have allies. We absolutely have to remember that. Look—good people are good people. No matter what. And we have to see the light in the darkness even it is hard to do. If we become bitter cynics hating on everyone else “because they don’t get us,” then we’ve failed to overcome the situation at hand. Honestly, it was this very experience that led me to pen this narrative. I had just overcome a painful period of loss and PTSD thanks to Islamophobia and you know who lent a less judgemental support system than many of my Muslim friends? My non-Muslims friends and family. There are good people out there. We just have to remember that.
Can we talk about the haram police? Salma has a boyfriend with whom she shares some physical intimacy. She utters and thinks profane words. She sneaks around a lot. How can good Muslim parents allow their children to read this?
This is a fair question, and every parent has the right to decide what their kids should or should not be exposed to. For my part, I can only explain how I viewed these issues as I, too, am a Muslim parent. I hope that my husband and I are "good" parents. As regards to being "good" Muslim parents, most of us would say that this means that we not only believe in Islam but practice it, too and raise our kids in the same way. However, as someone that was once a Muslim teen (I converted when I was 18) and is now raising Muslim daughters (two of whom are in their teens), I can tell you that our kids, even the ones who come from "good" families, are exposed to all sorts of haram things, if not doing them themselves. Well, maybe not the sneaking out and hunting gun-toting white supremacists, but cursing, dating? Yes.
This is a realistic portrayal of where our kids are. And it's not just convert kids or kids with parents who are more "relaxed" in their deen. So there’s that.
I was also mindful that we seem to have two tropes in literature and entertainment. There's the totally secular Muslim who doesn't believe or practice on any level, and then there is the perfect goody two-shoes Muslim. I think both of these tropes (though there are Muslims like this) are harmful. Most Muslims, especially teens, are somewhere in between. And yet, all types, from the extreme ends to the middle get all sorts of judgement for where they are. I do not think this is healthy. Teens need our patience and understanding. Furthermore, the dating in this book is fairly lowkey. Salma's relationship with Amir is fairly innocent. Yes, dating is considered haram, yes, that would mean kissing would be considered that, too, but have you seen the statistics on pre-marital sex? Look, my narrative is in between. Salma is not perfect, but she’s also still a thoughtful, believing Muslim. She’ll figure things out. And because her relationship with Amir and her family is open and honest, there is room to discuss and create healthy boundaries. I know a ton of kids who hide everything from their parents because the families are so strict, they hold their kids on a rope so tight but in the end it is these kids that often go way overboard. Point is: we have to meet kids where they are and be compassionate. I do not believe I'm glorifying dating or cursing in my book, but showing that just because someone does these things doesn't mean that they are "questioning their deen" and are "bad" Muslims. Salma is a real believer. As far as sneaking around—well, it is a thriller. I am asking the audience to suspend a little belief. Did I sneak out when I was a teen? Yes. Did I go and chase down white supremacists? No. But I also trust my readers to know that the mistakes or choices characters make are not theirs. If anything, the more morally complex a character we let our children read, the better. Let it be a source of discussion. For me—I rarely censor what my kids read. What I do instead is read it with them. Then we can talk about that gray area and learn from it. Together.
Is the grass greener elsewhere? Many non-conforming people flee rural areas to cities to live without the burden of stigma. We USA Muslims always seem to be looking for other places where Islam is “better.” And, it’s OK in my mind, to try it out, hear the adhan, go to restaurants and not have to tell the waiter to make sure there’s no ham in the vegetables. But don’t we have to find our solutions here, not in Morocco or Dubai or Istanbul or wherever the latest Dar al-Islam is?
To say the grass is greener elsewhere is to live in Muslim La La Land. I have spent ten years of my adult life living in “Dar al-Islam,” from Egypt to Jordan to the UAE and Qatar. I’ve also traveled extensively in non-Arab cultural zones of the Muslim world. Is it easier for me as a Western Muslim to raise my kids in the bubble land of the Gulf? Sure. Does some of that have to do with the Gulf being “Islamic” and “conservative?” Sure. But all the same “ills” that we find in the West do exist in the Muslim world. And the Muslim world has its own ills. Honestly, when it comes to my own spirituality Islamically speaking, I have never felt more alive than in the West where there is intellectual freedom and a lot of other supports—especially the world of nature.
Why is the cat named Thomas?
It is so funny you ask this question. You sensed there was a backstory, didn’t you? The Devon rex in No True Believers was originally named Thomas Jefferson. For me, this alluded to the academic and middle class, suburban nature of Salma's family. I see them as a family that would love the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned and read a translation of the Quran and would also likely have seen the musical Hamilton (Thomas Jefferson was one of my favorite characters in Hamilton). That being said, one of my beta readers was worried that the name would offend some black readers. Not wanting to upset anyone, I had the last name removed. The book was almost off to the publisher at that point, and it was the easiest and most cost-effective fix. Part of me is a little annoyed. I censored my own book. But the YA world can be very toxic and self-righteous, and if you are going to touch anything that broaches a touchy issue, it feels like you have to have a gazillion footnotes to explain yourself. I wasn't about to stop the pacing of the book by giving some unnecessary backstory about why Salma's family had a cat named Thomas Jefferson. So I dropped the last name.
Where can people acquire No True Believers and any of your other books?
All my books are found at any standard bookseller (B & N, Books A Million, Bookshop.org, IndieBound, Powell’s, Target, Walmart and Amazon). However, I strongly suggest using your local indie bookstore (brick and mortar or online) because they are really struggling right now and do not have the same cash resources to weather this Covid-19 disaster as does Amazon. Since we are all homebound, however, I do suggest checking out the kindle or audible version of my book as you can get it instantly!
How can your fans communicate with you?
I love hearing from fans and will always respond to them. The best way to get in touch with me is either through DM’ing me on my twitter (@RabiahLumbard) or Facebook handles (https://www.facebook.com/rabiahlumbard.books). I also work as an editorial consultant for novice writers. They can hit me up via my website www.rabiahyorklumbard.com. If I really like you, I’ll hand out my personal email.
Do you have any upcoming public appearances to promote? Livestreams, obviously!
On April 20th at 11 am EST I’m live streaming on the Muslim Nannies FB page to read and discuss my picture book The Gift of Ramadan. I had a few events lined up for No True Believers here in Doha, but we haven’t discussed moving those online yet. I’ll let you know as soon as I hear back from the Georgetown University MSA students who were supposed to host me! Obviously, we are social distancing here too.
Would you reveal any upcoming projects?
Absolutely! I've got two works in progress that I'm really excited about. The first is a middle-grade novel told through two POVs about a boy and a girl who go on the same umrah trip, and even though they are very different personality-wise, the two kids become good friends. My second WIP is another YA novel about an ordinary girl named Kadirah Brown who refuses to believe in miracles until extraordinary things happen in her life. I just finished a picture book biography about Rumi that will go on submission soon, so fingers and toes crossed with that. I'm eager to branch out into the adult fiction and poetry, and I have an idea percolating in my mind but I’m too nervous to share. Let's just say I'm going to fully embrace my given name (Rabiah) and smash some internal idols we Muslims love to carry. Oh and I’m determined to finish my MFA by 2021! That is a top priority.
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